Ok, what.

Sep. 23rd, 2010 01:29 pm
watershoes: (grumpy stick person)
[personal profile] watershoes
Look, I am really happy that bandom is getting going again and I am REALLY happy that my friends are happy about their band moving and making music and everything.

BUT. Here is the thing. If one is a member of [historically and/or currently opressed minority] and uses a word or phrase that has commonly, historically and currently been used against [historically and/or currently opressed minority] in order to shame, hurt and control [historically and/or currently opressed minority] based on the appearance, physicality, sexuality, religion, history, etc etc etc etc of [historically and/or currently opressed minority], then that is reclaiming a word or phrase. That is taking the power away from the people who are trying to hurt you.

When someone uses a word or phrase who is NOT part of [historically and/or currently opressed minority]? That is not reclamation. I don't give a shit how much of an 'ally' you say you are or if you're being ironic or if your fans interpret your words as jokes. Don't. Care. You are being a bigoted asshole and I don't want to know you.


I love my MCR flisters, a whole big lot. But I am seeing lots of statements like 'you're being too sensitive!' 'you are over reacting!' 'separate the music from the people making it!' UM NOPE. I can't. I'm glad that you can compartmentalize, but I can't. And this might make me sound like a 'holier than thou' asshole, but I'm trying really hard to walk the walk. I'm trying not to let the things that don't touch me personally slide. I don't want to be an asshole and I don't want to support people who act like assholes.


(oh, btw, I'm not talking about posts on my flist. If you were doing that, I would not have you on my flist! So I guess this is kind of an exercise in futility, keeping this locked.)

Date: 2010-09-23 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anoneknewmoose.livejournal.com
Goodness. Apparently our flists are very different. D:

I certainly agree with everything you say, however.

I am one of those people that can compartmentalize, though I certainly understand that other people have their own boundaries and tolerance levels and that is totally okay. I've tried not to say or imply any of those things that you quoted to people, and for my friends that I know are bothered by it I don't talk about MCR to them. I really hope that you don't feel like you need to defriend me, since I like you a lot, but if you do then I get it.

Date: 2010-09-23 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Oh no, I'm not talking about people on my flist, I should make that much more clear. I love my flisters! None of you are assholes. It's the lol defensives I'm running into in various places. I'm not going to stop stalking you, don't worry.

Date: 2010-09-23 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anoneknewmoose.livejournal.com
OH GOOD. I was really worried for a second. I don't want to lose my number one stalker. :( *clings*

(BTW, I have a new laptop with SKYPE. We should try chatting sometime. ♥)

Date: 2010-09-23 09:38 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-09-23 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] impertinence.livejournal.com
wtf? i'm not surprised people are being douches about it but - 'reclamation'? the FUCK?

ugh, fandom, you never change.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Yeah, just because in a behind the scenes dvd thing YEARS ago these guys weren't horribly sexist assholes DOES NOT MEAN that they get a pass! JFC.

Date: 2010-09-23 08:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jezrana.livejournal.com
I love MCR a lot and I'm okay with compartmentalizing a lot when it comes to them, but yeah, I agree with you about reclaiming. It just doesn't work that way. :/

And while I'm happy compartmentalizing and focusing on what I love about them, I try to be respectful of the fact that other people are going to react differently and that's fine. I'm not surprised to hear some people are being faily about it, but I'm sorry.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:19 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-09-23 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Hey, don't feel badly, it's when people can't see the fail and try to forget it happened or excuse it that my dander gets riled up.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strongplacebo.livejournal.com
I'm feeling very happy about my flist because I'm actually totally clueless about anything that's happened.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Ahaha, my flist is pretty awesome, but I always make the mistake of going around and reading things in other places. I SHOULD KNOW BY NOW TO NEVER READ THE COMMENTS.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:23 pm (UTC)
ext_3762: girl reading outside in sunshine (girl with a gun)
From: [identity profile] harborshore.livejournal.com
You are awesome. This is articulate and great. I can't fucking compartmentalize either, even if I try very hard not to let my personal disappointment touch things like the meta I post publicly so I'm so glad you said you can't, because sometimes I feel a little crazy and it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
I just can't, I am a champion grudge holder and if something pisses me off, I can't set it aside! I CAN learn to look past things if someone has worked to be better, but I can't excuse terrible decisions and actions just because I want something shiny.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:40 pm (UTC)
ext_3762: girl reading outside in sunshine (travis)
From: [identity profile] harborshore.livejournal.com
It especially doesn't help when they keep being faily and people keep making excuses (apparently some fan made a snarky remark about marketing on twitter and Gerard told her to eat sharp glass--and I've seen that referred to as awesome or some variant thereof several times).

And I agree--I can get over things if there is evidence that someone has figured their shit out (lord knows I've failed enough myself to have to do that, so I can hardly judge other people), but the escalation in the other direction is hard to take.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
yyyyy, i am always trying to be less of a terrible person and I'm super grateful that there are people who have been like 'no, stupid person, don't be an asshole' and have been patient with me and still wanted to be around me.

And aside from that face that those are not ok things to say EVER WHY would you want to say them to fans, ESPECIALLY in today's music industry? MCR are lucky it hasn't yet come to bite them in the ass, but they won't be lucky forever. And they've lost my money, that's for sure.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lovesongwriter.livejournal.com
I'm not sure that's the best example, due to the fact the twitter of the girl in question wasn't a fan and had decorated her background (if you clicked the tweet to read it) with the swaztika symbol and had been notable for trolling for Hitler.

Other parts I can agree with.

Date: 2010-09-24 04:34 am (UTC)
ext_3762: girl reading outside in sunshine (Default)
From: [identity profile] harborshore.livejournal.com
Ah, I didn't know that. I just reacted to the fact that what she actually said wasn't especially, you know, anything, and it seemed like a pretty over-the-top response. But that makes more sense, I'm glad you told me. I mean, the fact that she wasn't a fan doesn't matter, I don't think--but the Nazi trolling does.



Date: 2010-09-23 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roadmarks.livejournal.com
lol I was just editing a post on a similar subject! :D:

Date: 2010-09-23 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
\o/ CANADIAN POWER

Date: 2010-09-23 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roadmarks.livejournal.com
Also, man, the "You're too sensitive!" argument drives me. I just want to be like MAYBE IT IS YOU WHO IS NOT SENSITIVE ENOUGH, MAYBE THAT. >:(

Date: 2010-09-23 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
MAYBE YOUR SKIN IS TOO THICK TO REALIZE SOMETHING IS BITING YOU AND THAT SOMETHING IS OPPRESSION, BUDDY.

Date: 2010-09-23 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] myaurasmiles.livejournal.com
WHY ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID? I DON'T EVEN. :|

Date: 2010-09-23 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
>:( PEOPLE >:(

Date: 2010-09-23 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tabaqui.livejournal.com
I have *no clue* what you're talking about. Is this a sign i should not get the newest MCR cd for my daughter, who likes them?

Date: 2010-09-23 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Twitter has really not brought out the best in that band -- there has been a lot of misogyny and racism on display, as well as a character in their latest concept referred as a 'ladyboy', which is apparently also the name of the character. Yep, no actual name. Your daughter is 14, right? I would maybe get her to read through Frank Iero's twitter and look at some of the viral stuff for the album and decide for herself. Hopefully there won't be too much bleed over from how offensive these guys have turned out to be into the music, which I do still enjoy (albeit with a lot of "..."). I'm not really comfortable saying a definitive no, especially since this band meant a lot to me, but it's not a for sure YES!!

Date: 2010-09-24 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tabaqui.livejournal.com
Okay, thanks for the info.

Date: 2010-09-24 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Gerard apologized so I'm not sure why this is a problem anymore -Trey

Date: 2010-09-24 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
He didn't say he was sorry. He said "It was a nickname that turned into a real name, I agree that's a problem." That is not an apology, that's a justification, and it's not even approaching good enough.

Date: 2010-09-24 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
He did say he agreed with the original tweet so I don't see why that isn't good enough. - Trey

Date: 2010-09-24 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] globalfruitbat.livejournal.com
Because this is all about what people say? Because acknowledging something and being willing to admit he was wrong are two very different things? Because words mean things? If you say something and get called out for it the very least, the literal absolute LEAST you can do is apologise. And if you can't apologise, you shouldn't say things in the first place. Owning one's mistakes is part of being a fully realized person, who understands that all actions has repercussions.

Date: 2010-09-25 01:11 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
That actually makes more sense. Thanks - Trey

Date: 2010-09-24 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] impertinence.livejournal.com
Because there's no indication that he cares about the people he may have hurt and he hasn't said they won't discontinue the use of the name in the future.
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